Some vague spoilers for quests in Baldur's Gate 2
Butch:
Did some, but played stupid so didn't do as much as I should have.
I thought, "Time to move things along." I decided I wanted Hexxat when I talked to the vampires. Grabbed Hexxat. Immediately, someone shows up with something for her to do. OK, fine, whatever. I go to the graveyard to talk to the vampires and immediately she's all "OK, this is the place for my side quest" and I, like a dope, say "OK." We're immediately teleported somewhere. Some stuff happens and the VERY FIRST FIGHT is against fucking MIND FLAYERS and I got, well, flayed.
OK, redo.
Did all that again, told Hexxat to wait, talked to Bodhi, wondered what would happen if I was all "OK, but I don't trust you" and the answer is everyone left.
OK, redo.
Didn't take Hexxat this time because she didn't have all that much to say to the vampires anyway except Bodhi knew her.
Paid Galen Bayle. Chapter 3. Woot. Dude's all "OK! Go see Aran whoever." I, not wanting to waste any more time, go forth to find Aran!
I could NOT find the motherfucker.
I wandered through every last inch of every last floor of that labyrinth that is the guild multiple times. I could not find the motherfucker.
I think I spent half an hour of real time thinking "where the hell is that motherfucker?"
Eventually I just googled and, oh, hey, there's a secret door. Heh.
Talked to the guy, got yet more chores, got mad at him cuz I paid the damn money, hit save, as I had to make dinner.
So much game time. Wasted.
Feminina:
Yeah, pretty much no one approves of you siding with the vampires. Except, presumably, Hexxat and the other evil people you have a chance to travel with, but normally don't travel with because no one else likes them.
I don't even like most of them! Still haven't done more than say 'yeah, hi, let's talk later' to Korgan, and there's that dude we're supposed to rescue from the paladins or whatever that I just have not gotten around to rescuing.
I think Korgan was the one who abandoned me at the entrance to a dungeon because the party reputation got too high, back in the first game. I guess it's nice to know he's willing to work with me again now that my name recognition is lower.
Loothound:
Other than my brief stint with Korgan, my party has been nothing but the goody two-shoe sorts and I couldn't be happier. I bumped into the anti-paladin (Dorn?) outside where Anomen was to be knighted and he's basically "I'm gonna rob this place, wanna help?" Needless to say, that went about as you'd predict. Probably won't have any brook with vampires to the extent that I can help it. I mean, it's not like they're Angel and Spike or anything.
My night was also super-frustrating, but would have been more so if Feminina hadn't been ahead of me on this to offer productive discouragement. Firstaag's (?) dungeon thing. Checking out doors…okay, guardian with mask thing, guardian with mask thing, beholder. Fucking beholder. Get absolutely mashed. Start looking through stuff to game out a combat while ranting about fucking beholder, and Feminina says "yeah, I couldn't beat him. You don't have to fight him."
OK, cool. Onwards. More guardians with mask pieces. Cool. Loot tomb of kick ass shield and sword combo. Cool. On way out bump into another party of adventurers. Never met these people, not in journal. They be "yeah, we let you do the fights and looting for us and now we rob you." Fight looks manageable for about 10 seconds, then I realize how many buffs they have on…like vampire slayer buff. Oh, Anomen and Minsc are dead. Reload.
Spell and buff juggle two more attempts out of it, and Feminina says "yeah, I couldn't beat them. I just invisibled my way past them."
Okay, cool, but I don't have that much invisible. Finally decide to just try walking through without talking to them. Have Nalia haste us, and off we fuck. The conversation with them doesn't kick in until we're out of the room with them, and by the time combat starts we can just keep going without them catching us. Roll along for a bit until I run into a titanium golem, promptly said "aw, hell no." Titanium golem. Must break out that Sia/David Guetta song as fight music when I decide to try it.
Is there a potential companion named Bodhi? Please tell me he talks like Spicoli from Fast Times.
Yeah, the Galen Bayle thing. That's first on my list of things to do after this Firstaag guy, which interrupted my returning some acorns to some dryads. Which, ugh. I really hate the quest tracking in this game.
Butch:
Where in the seven hells ARE you with all that? Beholders? Titanium golems? Wha…?
Hell, at least you have an excuse for being frustrated. I just couldn't find a fucking secret door.
You know, I was thinking on this the other day. It's not that everyone would hate the vampires. This game, you can play it evil. Sure, sure, you can play pretty much any RPG "evil," but it rarely makes sense and usually pisses everyone around you off. Playing most games as evil is something you do if it's a second play through and you're curious, or you just feel like being a dick.
This game gives you a whole evil party if you want it (Viconia, Korgan, Hexxat, Edwin, Dorn). This game gives you real reasons to help vampires. This game reminds you all the time you are the god of fucking murder. Even the bad guy reminds you that you're evil, or should be evil, every chance he gets. This game WANTS you to be evil.
I think that's sort of the point. So much of your character's struggle is NOT giving in to Bhaal. The game is sort of mimicking that. "Hey, player, this would be SO much easier with these party members. If you side with the bad folks." The evil path isn't just something they give you cuz choice or if you feel like being a dick. It's the easier path. It's a path that makes a lot of sense. It's a genuinely TEMPTING path.
You don't see that all that often, even in Bioware's later games. Bethesda, I think, in Skyrim and the Fallout games comes the closest. Still, very rare.
Loothound:
Firstaag I think his name is. I was on my way to the Windspar Hills, bumped into some required sidetracking, and now I'm trying to rescue the daughter of this guy from some Lord who specifically wants to make me suffer.
That's an interesting point, and you're right that the game giving you plenty of reason and opportunity to be evil. I'm not surprised that most games don't go there, and frankly I am surprised that a D&D product was. I mean, it's not very often that a product gets widely condemned as introducing devil worship and black magic to children (D&D and Heavy Metal music, two of my favorite things), and to be willing to come out with something this morally up in the air after the panic of the 80's is a bold choice. Then again, that is 20 years before this game was made.
Still, the dabbling with villainy stuff is rare.
Also, its nine hells, which I wouldn't be pedantic and correct you on except that we ARE talking about D&D.
Butch:
Always wise, in these troubled times, to reduce the number of hells.
You talk on quest tracking, and I'm with you. I also am getting the sense that the stuff outside the city (with the exception of Trademeet) is a LOT harder than the stuff in the city. That said, for some reason we got Nalia and the guy who wanted us to go to the Windspear hills right off the bat (very early in Chapter 2). Usually, games wait to tell you to go to the harder places until later. Hell, sometimes you CAN'T go to the harder places until later. This game strongly suggested we do Nalia's bit and the Windspear hills bit right away and, as I have been poking around the city, that doesn't make a lot of sense.
Go figure.
Feminina:
That is a good point about how we have a perfectly legitimate reason to be evil, in this game. Family legacy! Lots of tough potential companions! People who promise to help you!
People who – and here's why I considered siding with the vampires, along with simple curiosity – are battling the other people who promise to help you, who themselves belong to a criminal organization.
It's like, shadow thieves or vampires? Neither one of them is exactly the clear path to justice and right…vampires are somewhat more obviously NOT that path, being evil undead and all, but signing up with the thieves guild also isn't obviously a good idea if we're trying to be heroic.
Also a very good point about the quest tracking, or lack thereof. I can read my journal at the moment, so I've got that going for me, but even so it's not easy to figure out where you have to go for what.
Butch:
Minsc even said "We do the bidding of thieves now?" But hey, he was madder about the vampires.
There's no good option, which, again, is not all that common. There's often a "right" path. A paragon path, if you will. CDPR is good at muddying the waters, but, usually, if you want to play as a pure, sterling hero, you can.
Feminina:
But not this time!
As the child of the god of murder, you are inevitably tainted. Evil follows you.
Butch:
It's true.
But, not entirely. Revenge is a big part of this game. Just saw that with Jaheira and her shit. She even says "With vengence!" all the time. I find it interesting that every single time you meet a new character you're given the choice of saying "You must know, I need to save Imoen" or "You must know I'm tracking a wizard named Irenicus." I'm not sure it matters, yet, here we are given the choice, each and every time, of expressing empathy or revenge.
Interesting they make you pick each time.
Loothound:
Yes. It's all a parable about mankind and original sin. Life feeds on life, this is necessary, red in tooth and claw.
Butch:
It's too bad you killed Aerie, because she stands as a counterpoint. She's the one who has been wronged in the most obvious way (she had her wings hacked off because slavers let them become infected) and yet she's the one who, over and over, wishes the violence would stop. She isn't all "Must find and kill slavers!" She wants a quiet life, despite being tortured.
Hmm.
Loothound:
Hmm, I hadn't thought about it but you're right. Those are pretty much the two things that they always let you bring up. I wonder if each of the companions has a different potential reaction to the two different approaches. Like, goods respond well to rescue and bads respond well to revenge. Either that, or you're just getting to frame the "okay, but I've got my own shit going on" issue however you view your primary mission. Just an affirmation of your own priorities, perhaps.
Damn, that's a pretty brutal backstory. Which one was Aerie, the wizard/cleric that was at the circus? As much as I like Nalia, her pampered upper-class savior complex is a little much sometimes.
Butch:
I'm not sure it matters. I always pick "I'm looking for Imoen," and I've never gotten a "You hero!" from a good guy or "Fuck off, bleeding heart" from a bad guy. It seems just to be a role playing choice, and an interesting one.
Aerie was the one who looked like an ogre cuz of the illusion who you killed. Sadly.
Loothound:
Yeah, it didn't seem like it matters, and that's exactly how I've been framing it as well. Although that's partially because I don't want to lead with the "we're out for vengeance on a deadly powerful wizard" part.
I have to say, another thing that impresses me about this game is that they're keeping the magical item treasure really lean. Most games now give you the Monty Haul style of game where you just start accumulating a lot of powerful items. Magic items being rare is just much more interesting. I found a suit of full plate +1 last night, and it felt like winning the lottery.
Butch:
And yeah, this game doesn't shy away from from brutal.
Loothound:
No it does not. Like the 'gore' setting for the visuals, although that's actually kind of hilarious. It's like, the target reaches zero hit points and then explodes into several very tidy cuts of meat that bounce away fairly bloodlessly. That Insta-butcher feat really is impressive.
As far as Aerie goes, I've moved on. Very much just taking a "one life to live" approach to this game. There's just so much…
Butch:
This is why you have blogmates. To learn of the paths not travelled.
I still haven't touched the planar sphere or rescued that poor actor. I may never. We shall see.
Feminina:
I tried to rescue that guy, and couldn't find him, and then got distracted by something else. I may return to the quest at some point. Or I may be distracted by something else again.
The difference between this and tabletop D&D is that a real-life DM would never let the players get hold of so many plot hooks at the same time.
Loothound:
That is so true, you just nailed it. The game actually sort of forces it on you, too, with all the companions being like "you need to do my shit NOW or I am out of here." I'm willing to be as patient as my friends are but…
<<stretches arms out as far as they go, shrugs>>
I will probably do the sphere, because I spurned the Cowled Wizards for his sake and I gotta see where that goes. Probably not going to rescue the actor. I mean, even the goodest of good guys can't do everything.
Butch:
Well, and you generally don't see DMs allowing companion quests. When you were DMing, if a player was all "You must do this now or I am leaving," you'd say "yeah, throw your pizza box out on your way out."
I've even started just not even trying. I ran into Rasaad and he had all this story and shit, and I was like "Yeah, just…um…wait here. I'll be back. Maybe. Just…wait here."
Loothound:
Ha. Although, since the entire party is generally PCs in a live game who really counts as a companion anyway? And, does it really matter as much when time and space are all just putty in the hands of the DM? It's just that a computer world is so rigid in terms of both things.
Feminina:
That's what I said to Korgan. "Just stay here, I'll...see you later maybe."
And yeah, as for companion quests, I was going to say that this is true if all the people in the party are PLAYERS, but since all the companions here are NPCs, its 'their' quest, but the PC is still the one who's actually doing it.
I could totally see a DM saying to a party, "hey, your longtime faithful companion the goblin who lost one leg to wolves so you took him home and turned him into your butler has a quest he must fulfill, and he asks you to help him."
Obviously, I would totally help him.
Butch:
Oh shit. Major throw back.
Loothound:
Wow, I remember that guy…
If I recall correctly, he didn't "lose his leg to wolves," you all hung him up in a tree to keep him out of trouble and wolves came and were able to eat his leg off. You made him your butler because you felt bad for him.
Feminina:
This is quite true.
Butch:
Yup. It was on us. I blame myself. I hope he's happy in whatever parallel universe he's in.
Loothound:
I think that was the campaign with Igor and "someone's" great ubermensch goblins founding the Goblin Empire. He ended up being some high official.
While we're in throwback mode, Feminina you were right about Olivia Worthington being the tweedy college professor one. The safari outfit character was our friend, the now semi-pro Internet Troll. I got them mixed up. They were both involved in the Rifle Boy incident.
Butch:
Semi Pro Internet Troll sounds like the name of a Radiohead record.
Feminina:
Oh man, I'd completely forgotten that.
Loothound:
"…'cause I'm a troll,
I'm a meme-loooouooord
Aaas edgey as a crystaaaal, clear?
My bubble-o-spheeere
I don't belong heeere."
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